Ep 28 - ADHD and Home Organization: Featuring Lisa Woodruff

I’m really excited to bring you this conversation with Lisa Woodruff, who has been an amazing resource for me as well as my clients. Her book: How ADHD Affects Home Organization: Understanding the Role of the 8 Key Executive Functions of the Mind is a fantastic read, and a book I’ve been recommending left and right since I read it last year. Let’s jump on in!

You can listen right here, on Apple, Amazon, Spotify or you can read the transcription below. Enjoy!

Carly: Welcome, welcome. I am so excited to bring you this show today, guys, because it's a big day over here. I was telling her before we recorded that I'm trying to keep my chill and we'll see if I'm able to do it, but we have Lisa Woodruff on the show today from Organize 365.

I am so happy for a variety of reasons and I will explain, but let me just dip into her bio really quick. Lisa Woodruff is the founder and CEO of Organize 365. She has a background as a teacher, professional organizer, motivational speaker, and entrepreneur. She believes that organization is a learnable skill and she teaches individuals how they can become organized in their own lives and homes. She's the founder of the Sunday Basket System and community. She's a podcast host and in my opinion, just does a beautiful job of breaking down spaces or concepts that might feel overwhelming and turning them into strategies that you can easily implement at home. So welcome, Lisa.

Lisa: Oh my goodness. Carly, thank you so much for having me on your podcast.

Carly: Thank you for being here. I'm really, really excited. As you know, I'm a big fan of your book, How ADHD Affects Home Organization, Understanding The Role of The Eight Key Executive Functions of The Mind. And this book is something that I read to do more research on my own end, as I was helping clients and students and their families with ADHD. It comes up more and more this topic, and I recommended this book left and right, including in our clutter-free gift guide this last holiday season, which is how we ended up connecting and talking.

Yeah. So thank you so much for this resource and all that you do. And for those who aren't familiar with your work yet, let's start at the beginning. Because you've been in the organization space since 2012, which is amazing — can you share with us a little bit about how Organize 365 came to be?

Lisa: Yeah, so it's kind of a funny story. I'm 50 now — at the time, in December of 2011, I was 39. Stay-at-home mom, but I'd gone back to teaching for 18 months and that just was not working with our family. My kids really needed me to be home even though they were late grade school, starting middle school age.

And I just couldn't be everywhere, and I was failing at everything in life except for my teaching job. And then my administrator said she didn't think I was a very good teacher. And to be honest, I mean like, why did she even say that? Like why would you even say that to somebody the 39, like the Thursday before winter break, like these are thoughts you just keep to yourself or let that person go.

But whatever she said, I wasn't a very good teacher, and so I'm driving home and I already know I'm not being a good wife, not a good mother, not a good homeowner. Like basically I'm failing every single thing in my life. But I thought I was still being a good teacher, and I still think I was being a good teacher.

But her saying that made me reevaluate things that I was like, well, if I'm going to fail in life, I'm not going to fail at being a mom. I'm going to fail as a teacher — like, fine, I'm not a good teacher, but I'm also not a good mother, and these kids will never have another mother, so I should probably prioritize that over my career.

To be honest, I was at the end of like a seven-year slide into the pit of despair. Like my parents had gotten divorced, and then my father had passed away and then, the whole world went into a recession. But the company that I was a direct sales consultant for had declared bankruptcy twice during that time.

And so our income was going down, I mean like just everything was falling apart, and I was about to turn 40 and I have this unique heritage in that I am a fourth generation, female college graduate, like my great-grandmother went to college. Like nobody can say that. But also all of those women started their own businesses and all of the men too — basically, I just come from unemployable people.

Like we just create businesses. We don't work for people, we just, we create jobs. I like to walk around here and say, "I'm where work comes from.” Like, y'all have jobs because I could create this much work, there is so much work I can create. And so I knew that. I was holding myself back in that I was supposed to be a business owner.

Like I'd always known I was supposed to be a business owner, and I was kind of playing small and I was failing — like I was playing small and failing. I was like, well, I might as well play big and fail! So I quit my teaching job, and I came home and I sat down and I reflected on the past 40 years of my life, I had had a lot of jobs.

I'd made a lot of money, a lot of different ways. I always was able to make it. And I was like, what is unique about me? Like what is my uniqueness that I bring to the world? And it turned out that everything I had done in my first 40 years I was successful at because I was an organized person, or I helped someone else be organized, even as a teacher.

And I was like, okay, well I understand blogging, I understand SEO. So I'll just create a blog called Organize 365, and then I'll figure out how to monetize it later. So that's how I started Organize 365. I figured I could talk about organizing for the rest of my life. I didn't know how you made money doing that, but I just figured I'd figure it out.

Carly: And you did. Yeah. You sure did. So that's amazing. I love it. I'm so happy for you because I work in the organization space and help mentor newer organizers. And for some, it can be like finally finding their passion and the beginning of a long journey. And for some, it can be, yeah, a shorter road, but I love that you're helping people get organized.

By proxy, you help a lot of organizers. I know I told you privately, but your Sunday Basket System, which we'll get into in a bit — is a big hit in the community that I mentor in. And people talk about it a lot. They're big fans. That's why I'm like fingerling today. So I'm very, it's awesome how much you help people.

And as I mentioned, so I first read your book to gather resources for my own clients and students who have ADHD themselves or are helping their child. And this really is, I feel like people are getting diagnosed more and more. So this is just a topic that keeps coming up again and again. And I was really excited to read your book, and I found that you broke down concepts in a really easy-to-read and understandable way, like you just break them down very easily and you have a lot of actionable takeaways. Can you talk a little bit about how this topic came to be the subject of one of your books?

Lisa: Yes. So first, ADHD is a spectrum disorder or a spectrum continuum, so no one has perfect executive function and no one is a hundred percent devoid of executive function and I'm not surprised more and more people are getting diagnosed with ADHD, like I was diagnosed with ADHD last year. But it doesn't impact my daily life. And so I'm getting my PhD to try to figure out like, can we improve our executive function? Like, because our brains are plastic and we can continue to grow and evolve.

And I have said for a long, long time, I think ADHD is an evolution of the brain. I don't think it's a deficiency at all, because the people I know who have ADHD diagnoses or have more of these executive function deficits, they're able to see the world differently. They're not as linear of thinkers, and I think that's actually where we're going.

But anyway, that's my own, like, just stay-at-home mom rambling on a podcast thoughts. But what I found was I did go to school to be a teacher. Like that's what I went to college for, to be a teacher. And I taught for four years before we adopted our children. And I taught at-risk youth, and I taught preschool and kindergarten, and then I taught middle school math and I taught the students that weren't really ready for kindergarten, like maybe they didn't have books at home or they weren't in a daycare where they were learning. And so they came into preschool and kindergarten NOT kindergarten-ready. And there was a series of 20 tasks that we wanted students to be doing at the age of five to be kindergarten-ready, like count to 10, your colors…

And they didn't. And so they qualified for an extra half-day of kindergarten with me so that they would get more education. So when they went to first grade, the hope was that these students would never end up on an IEP and they wouldn't need any additional assistance. And it was a pretty successful program.

And when I was in that program, some of the kids would get diagnosed with ADHD and I'm 22, so I know everything there is to know about everything, of course. And so I'm like, this is ridiculous. Why would you diagnose a child at the age of five? Or right at the end of the school year, they were ready to put one of these children, this five-year-old little girl on Ritalin.

And I'm like, well that's ridiculous. First of all, we have like three days of school left, so why don't you just wait till next year? And second of all, there's no way that's going to work because you know, 22. I know! So they did, they put her on Ritalin, and the next day she was able to read. She was like, all these skills came out.

I was like, okay, I know nothing. Like I know nothing. I'm an idiot. And that's when I realized that okay, there definitely are some people who need medical intervention in order to be able to show what they know. And so that was the first time I really realized that there was more to this ADHD thing than just discipline — you tend to have your own expectations.

So then fast forward, I adopted our children and when my son was two, we were at the pediatrician's office with the newborn, and the pediatrician said, yeah, when you come back, we'll be talking about ADHD with this one. And I'm like, he's two. Like, how do you know? He's like, oh, oh, I know, I know. Like it’s full-fledged. She like, you're going to like ding, ding, ding. You're going to hit all the boxes with the ADHD. So he did. He did qualify as ADHD and with learning disabilities, and both my kids ended up going to a learning disability school here in Cincinnati. And this learning disability school also specializes in ADHD and provides resources in Cincinnati for the teachers and the parents in the whole community for ADHD because learning disabilities and ADHD are very closely aligned, and this is one of only 18 schools in the country that are specializing in language learning disabilities. And so they really specialize in ADHD. And so I'm a former teacher and I'm a parent, so I went to every training they ever offered.

And in conjunction with Cincinnati Children's, they would bring in the best of the best speakers like, name an ADHD big book — that speaker has spoken in Cincinnati in conjunction with this school in Cincinnati Children's. And I went and I listened to them. And so I learned a lot about you know, how these executive functions impact education and along the way, in order to get my children organized, I realized, oh, organization is a learnable skill.

But it took my kids a lot longer to learn the skill of organizing, but now they have it, and when I started being an in-home professional organizer, 50% of my clients either were diagnosed or self-diagnosed with ADHD, and I realized they just needed help learning the skill of organizing. It took them longer to learn the skill, but they could learn the skill.

They were so demoralized in feeling like. It's impossible. I have ADHD, I can't be organized. I'm like, no, you could be organized. It just takes a while to learn.

Carly: That makes total sense. And as somebody who definitely does not consider themselves an organized person naturally at all, the fact that all of this is learnable — it was a learned skill for me too.

I'm firmly in that camp as well. It's definitely something that you're either born with or not. Some people, I mean, some people are born with it, but many of us are not. But you can absolutely learn it because yeah, there's nothing that's incredibly remarkable about my brain, and like, if I can do it, anyone can do it.

Lisa: Yeah. And here's what's really cool, because we've been doing this for 10 years and the Sunday Basket, like you mentioned, has been around for five and is a physical product that you can actually buy and do. You can learn anything. Like you literally, you literally can learn anything. And what I realized was there are a lot of structures and support in corporate America and in schools for people who are diagnosed with ADHD.

But at home — nothing, because there's no structure at home. You have to create your own structure at home. That's why it's really, really hard. But I'm getting more and more emboldened in my belief that we can really turn around and increase our executive function and thereby reduce and mitigate the effects of ADHD in our everyday life because of our audience who are doing the Sunday Basket to great effect.

So here's what's happening now. People are buying the Sunday Basket for their parents who are diagnosed with dementia and Alzheimer's, and then they start doing the Sunday Basket, and it takes some months to get them to, like, "No, put it in there. We're going to go through it on the weekend.”

And then when they go through it on the weekend, over and over again, their executive function is coming back, like their executive function and their remembering skills are coming back. I'm like, but you have an Alzheimer's diagnosis. She goes, yeah. I'm like, well then how is your mom now able to take care of her daily task? And she's like, “The Sunday Basket!”

You created a new structure for her and now she's learned the system. She can't do it every week, but you know, eight out of 10 times, she can do it on her own now, where she couldn't a year ago. I'm like, oh my gosh, are you telling me that we can improve executive function in people who have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's?

And then I was talking to a doctor and they were like, oh yeah, we could totally do this. I'm like, okay, well, game on — I'm in.

Carly: That's amazing. Really amazing. I can't wait to like learn more about that as I'm sure you're going to be doing more and more research on that. That's so cool.

Okay. So I know we talked about, oh, and I should back up a little bit. Usually at the top I give a little Gimli disclaimer that he's probably here snoring, and he is today. So if anyone hears that, I'll try and mute myself when I'm not talking! So this book, as we mentioned, it breaks down key executive functions of the brain and how ADHD might affect those as they relate to home organization.

Can you touch on a few of the executive functions that you, I know you break down more thoroughly in the book, so I don’t expect a breakdown right now, but can you touch on a few of those?

Lisa: Yeah, the one I usually mention first is working memory. So working memory is actually measured on an IQ test, and this is where if you have students that struggle, struggle in school and they're wondering if ADHD might be one of the factors, they will do a full WISC evaluation and in the WISC, working memory is actually a score that you get. And if your working memory is different from your overall test and there's a discrepancy, that's when you start to look for more testing. It's one of the numbers that we really can look to that you could do a test for, whereas a lot of this is just observational, so working memory is the amount of information you could keep in your head at one time.

So they test this on the IQ test by giving you randomized numbers and then seeing how many of the numbers you can accurately read back. And most people could do like, some people could do like nine, no one could do 900. So I mean, there's like a range in there. Some people can do less, some people can do more, but everybody does about the same.

And so in school as a teacher, it's usually the math teacher that will notice that there might be this working memory deficit, especially once we do multiplication long division. Because there are so many steps that you need to do that students will end up skipping steps or they'll skip multiple steps.

And that's why we want you to show your work so that we know where you're losing it. So that's a great example of what is working memory. Now, how this relates to you in the house is that there is no structure at home, and you have a million tasks you need to do and you have a million demands on your time and all this kind of stimulus coming at you, the doorbell's ringing because the Amazon package is coming and you got more mail and then you remember that you're out of milk and then the dishwasher is done and you need to change the laundry and like just all these random things.

And what I was trying to do for a long time is just get to the end of the to-do list so there wouldn't be as much to do. And then I could relax. But the truth is, you’re never finishing the to-do list, so you might as well just go read the book because that's not going to happen. And so over time, as a productivity-obsessed person, I figured out how to create like, task stacking.

So I'd spend one hour and I'd get as much done as possible and then I'd be able to have a free hour or how to eliminate work altogether. And finally, I realize it's just, it's never going to go away and that our brain is going to continue to talk to us all day long. Did you give the dog the flea and tick medicine?

You know, have you mailed the Christmas card? Have you? Our brain is just constant. So I finally was like, I'll just write everything down that my brain says. So I literally write everything down one thing on every index card, and then I'll just have this stack of index cards. And then I look at the stack of index cards and I ask myself one question, can this wait till Sunday?

If it can wait till Sunday, I would just throw it in this Sunday Basket. And then on Sunday I would go through all these actionable things, and that got my brain to stop talking back to me, versus every time my brain says to do something. I would stop what I was doing and start doing that, start doing that, and just running around.

So that's a great example of working memory, how you get diagnosed with it, what it would look like in school, and then how it impacts you at home and how you can mitigate it at home.

Carly: I love that so much. And as a side note, for any business owners that happen to be listening, I highly suggest this brain dumping for the endless number of ideas that you have that are possibly good ideas, but not necessarily anything that you should take action on.

Doesn't have anything to do with what you're currently working on in your current workload. Find a place to just write it down. Yeah, I have a spreadsheet and it's just like an idea parking lot. And then I just don't worry about it ever again because yeah, honestly, it will come back up in your brain later if it needs to make a to-do list.

But that has really helped me because of the clearing of the brain. It's a thing. It is a thing. So let's talk about systems creation because something that I found that was super interesting to me as an organizer, when I started researching specifically ADHD-friendly organizational solutions, something I found that I was just really happy about is that the type of solutions that I've found multiple authors including yourself, have recommended, have been strongly in line with the type of systems that I was creating for my clients in general anyway. And the basis of that is to really make things as simple as possible. And I talk about it a lot, but when I first became an organizer, I really felt like I need to blow people away with these like very complex solutions they've never seen before.

Lisa: I'm like, this is the weight of their heart.

Carly: And I quickly, quickly, thank God, learned that that is not the case. Like people don't need crazy complex systems that are going to blow them away. What they need are crazy simple solutions that everyone can keep up with, and that's the key to success.

What I found is just like simplification, simplification, simplification. If it feels too simple to be a solution, but it feels good, you're on the right track. And there are some people that really are fans of that, you know? Micro-organization. So like everything has its own specific spot, but I really start with a macro organizational approach.

So like let's categorize, let's put it in a bin, let's label it — maybe a clear bin so we can see through it. Yes. Just anything that helps our brain take fewer steps to think. Doing the thing we needed to do, even in a wardrobe that might be doing a seasonal switch so that everything in front of me is for the current season and fits me.

I know I like it and I can just grab an outfit quickly versus my brain having to say yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. Yes, no. Because you only really have so much decision bandwidth every day. So anyway, all of that is to say, I know you talk about — not all systems work in all homes or for all people.

And there's kind of an intuition when you're thinking about a system of like, is this going to work for me or not? Is this something I'm going to keep up? And I know you mentioned in the book too, that this isn't a book saying like, this is the three-step solution that's going to work for every single person, which I totally love.

So what would you say is the biggest takeaway or concept that you would want people to walk away with after reading your book?

Lisa: I love everything that you said. I think if you can have a kindergarten level of organization, it's perfect. Like, yeah. And if you think about a kindergarten classroom, a kindergarten classroom is really organized.

It's really visual and it's really organized and you know where to put everything away. And that's exactly what you should have in your house. If you didn't put it away, you didn't put it away, but if you were going to put it away, you should know where it goes. Yes. And then to layer on top of it should be where it goes that makes sense to you. So a lot of times — I always use the nail clipper analogy, but I mean like, where do you keep nail clippers? Most people are going to keep them upstairs in their bathroom, like if you have a two-story house. But when we had kids, we always clipped their nails outside, off of the kitchen.

So we actually kept them in a kitchen drawer. Because that made more sense because that's where we used them. We kept the kids’ socks in the family room because that's where the shoes were when you were going to leave the house. So where you would use the item is where you should store the item. And we get so hung up on where it's supposed to be.

Says who? The magazine you read 20 years ago? How do you even know how other people use their homes? No one's going in your doors. They have no idea why you're storing what you're storing, where you storing it, so it should work for you. And then the other part of that is your house needs to be reorganized every couple of years.

And if you have children, it has to be reorganized every three months. Yeah. So when you have little kids, like every three months everything is going to change and you just need to get used to, like, this is not a one-and-done. It's not like I'm going to spend all weekend and my house is going to be perfectly organized for the rest of my life.

That's not a thing. You're going to keep growing and changing how you use this house. And so you should always be making little pivots. And if you keep going to look for scissors in the kitchen, but they're stored somewhere else. Put a pair in the kitchen. I actually have scissors in every single room of my house. Like that is a game changer. Nice scissors too. You know, like the $10 scissors, not these little $1 things that don't cut anything. I have the nice Fisker, 10 to $20 scissors. I have eight pairs. I have them everywhere. One of my favorite things is like when you realize, when you realize what the frustration is.

Carly: Yes. That's when you can create a new organizational system. Because it's literally just problem-solving. Like, yes, what's the problem? What would feel much more ergonomic and just like there's easy flow in my day? This is the answer.

Lisa: And I would say the biggest hurdle for people who identify as having ADHD is that they just don't want to put their stuff away. Let's just be real. They would much rather do something, anything else. And that's true. Okay. First of all, that's everybody. Everybody. It's not just you.

Carly: That is everybody. I hate it too. And I'm an organizer!

Lisa: Right? Because we'd much rather be doing something else. And then secondly, it is more challenging sometimes for you to put stuff away than for other people.

And then also you're an adult, so you just have to like, as soon as you discipline yourself and you're like, okay, I'm going to set the timer for 10 minutes every night and I have to put away stuff for at least 10 minutes and let's see how much I can put away. Even if you don't get it all the way done, it doesn't need to be perfect.

My house is never perfect. Follow me on Instagram for more… the dishes are never done, like I've just, I'm over it. Everything has a place to go back to. And when my mother-in-law comes over, it looks like it's perfect.

Carly: And that's all that matters, Lisa, right?

Lisa: Yeah. You have to like, I know you don't want to, no one wants to, you just have to, so get over yourself.

Carly: How would you say you handle the resistance of that concept of “it's never going to be done?” Because I've talked to plenty of people where, “It's never going to be done so, why?” Like, what is your rebuttal to that? Because I have a spiel, but I'd love to hear yours.

Lisa: Oh, I still want to hear yours. Okay. So yes, it's never going to be done.

I'm 50 now. I love being 50, by the way. So my kids are 22 and 21, and my grandbaby is 15 months and he lives with us. And so it's never going to be over. Thank you. So here's what I know, now that I've been through all the stay-at-home mom parenting years. The whole thing is, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not an oncoming train.

Like when you're 50, you seriously can organize your house and it will stay organized for a decade, except now the grandbaby is living here. Yeah, so there will be a time when you can organize your house and it'll stay organized. And like even in your thirties, when you organize your paper, you can organize your paper.

I want you to think about your storage area, your storage room as a store that you own. It's like prepaid stuff that you've purchased. You're not sure if you need it or when you're going to need it. And you're going to go down there and it should be on shelving units, and you pull out bins of things that you need. So it should look like a store — it shouldn't be stacked empty boxes and broken things.

Like when you take the time to organize your storage room to that level, it will pretty much stay organized. You'll just need to maintain it, because the system has been put in place. But in your twenties and thirties, like you're not going to get to the end of being organized because you're too busy accumulating spouses and houses and jobs and careers and passions and figuring out who you want to be when you grow up.

And then when you turn 40, you're like, okay, I think this is what it is — deep into a decade of that. And then when you're 50, you go, yeah, I was on the right track. I'm going to keep going with that or not. And you just, you just kind of evolve in your life, but you're never totally done with the organizing.

It's maintenance. It's part of living your life. And nobody's house is perfect. Like, I don't know. Think about the houses you've been in. First of all, they're not perfect. No. No one's. What do you think other people's houses look like?

Carly: They're a mess. I've been saying for a while now, I think I might make this a bigger thing. I have a friend who's always like, we should make a t-shirt. I kind of feel strongly about this, but it would say, “Perfection is a myth.” Because totally, no one's perfect. And I'm sure you get asked as an organizer all the time, like, oh, your house must be perfect, right? Nope. No, I have a bunch of bags of Container Store returns. There's this extra chair in the corner that needs to go away. And you know, there's always things in flux, and there's always things that aren't quite where they belong. And did I do a little desk tidy before this episode just so that I could like, have my brain think a little bit better?

Yeah. Yes, a hundred percent! I've been likening the maintenance to just surrendering to the fact, like you mentioned, that it is an ongoing process. But it's like other good habits in your life, like eating well, hydrating, sleeping, well, you wouldn't be like, “Well, I didn't get a good night's sleep last night. Guess I'm bad at sleep.” And then just give up on it. Right? So it can happen guys! All we do is help people with this, and it is totally, totally, totally learnable. What do you feel is the biggest misconception about ADHD and home organization that you're working to debunk?

Lisa: The idea that you cannot learned this skill, like I am really pressing into is organization learnable. So I'm meeting with another researcher, we're going to do an ADHD study, and he started talking to me. He said, first of all, is it really learnable? I'm like, oh my gosh. Yes, learnable. He's like, all right, how can we prove it's learnable?

I'm like, I don't know, but let's prove it's learnable, because I want to prove that organization is a learnable skill. Because in our research we found 87% of Americans believe organization is a learnable skill. And then when we asked them if they were organized, personally, organized storage, organized family and communal space, and paper organized, the answers were 18%, 17%, 16% or 15%.

I'm like, okay. This school is not even on academic probation. If your population is saying that they are less than 20% organized, but 87% believe organization is a learnable skill, like that's, that's pathetic. That's our fault. Like you and me Carly, we have got to be saying, no, no, no. There's nothing wrong with you.

If you believe it's learnable, but yet you haven't learned it, then you intuit that there's a problem with you. No, the problem is there is no industry that has taught the skill. There is an industry that has sold products for organization. There is an industry who has done it for you, but there has not been an industry that has taught you the skill of organizing so that you can do it, and so that you understand how it changes as you go through life.

Carly: Something I love about Organize 365 is that you and I are on the same wavelength. Yeah, our goal is not to do it for you forever, so that you're dependent on me to keep your house organized for the rest of your freaking life on, one-on-one. It’s, “Let me teach you, I would be thrilled to teach you so that you don't need me.”

And it's not because I don't want to be in contact with you, beautiful person. It's not, it's because I don't want you to feel like you need me to hold your hand every step of the way. And you guys are doing the same thing. Which kind of leads me, I'm just going to get into the Sunday Basket because one of my favorite things about working with a client, a student, and especially with folks with ADHD, is that when we're figuring strategies that work for them long term, we're able to kind of take away these blocks by simplifying our systems, and that's when everything really clicks.

So, for many people, many people, this was a huge breakthrough in my life too. The mail and paper solutions are like the thing, and you have built an entire community around this concept which I hear amazing things about from folks on the inside. So, will you please share about the Sunday Basket System and community?

Lisa: Yes. So as a former stay-at-home mom, my kitchen counter was a mess. And as soon as my kids would take a nap, I would try to find something on that kitchen counter to do so that I could take it off my to-do list and then the kids would wake up, and I just found out I was getting further and further and further behind.

And so you'd probably been where I was, where you'd pay a bill late because you didn't even know it was due. Or you miss a birthday party because you lost the invitation or whatever, and then add on to the fact that you missed or didn't do something, you just feel, you know, you should be a slug or something.

Like, how could you possibly miss this birthday party? Or how could you possibly have to pay this late fee when you had the money in the bank? Like, why can't you get it together? Get it together! And I'm sure that you have been in people's homes — and women would say to me all the time when I was doing in-home professional organizing, which is 10 years after I created the original Sunday Basket, and they would say, my spouse just says I should know how to do this.

I should have it together. I should not need to hire you. I, like, what's the matter with me that I can't do this on my own? And I was like, well, that's ridiculous. Like, everybody needs help sometimes. Yeah. And now, here we are 10 years after that because I created this 20 years ago. In media, we hear a lot about the invisible work and you know, being more equitable and sharing the workload at home.

But it is, the Sunday Basket is the invisible work that is done inside of homes that people don't realize need to be done. I mean, you see it on the kitchen counter, but you don't really realize, you're like, well, if you got through that kitchen counter, you'd be done. No, it's neverending like, the pets need the flea and tick medicine every single month.

The bills have to be paid every single month. The kids stuff brings stuff home from school. Every single day, you've just got like, the holidays have to be planned. You have to get ready to go back to school. You need to buy new scissors. You need to put away all the Amazon purchases, you need to return the dress that didn't fit… boxes… oh, on and on and on and on and on.

And first I started by writing down all of the thoughts that my brain had so I could put them in the Sunday Basket along with the mail. And then on Sunday I would look at all of the actionable things that needed to be done during the week, because my babies were little when I started this and try to get ahead of it on Sunday because my husband was going to go back to work on Monday.

And how am I going to make it all the way until Friday? Like that's what I was just trying to do. And over time I realized that the freedom of getting something or writing something down and saying, “This can wait till Sunday,” immediately just took it off my shoulders and put it in this box. And so I purposely procrastinated things until Sunday.

And then what happened on Sunday was, yes, I had to go through all those things, but I went through them so much faster because I was in the right mindset for it, and I made such better decisions. So what I noticed immediately was I got a handle on my finances. Because instead of every time I remember to buy something, I would immediately buy it.

Or I would go out and I'd write the check. I would wait until Sunday and then I'd see all of the, demands on our time and our money, and I'd be like, oh, well we only have so much money. And I'd start saying no to things that I would've said yes to in the moment. Same with my energy. I started creating an errand day.

Then everything got done on one day and I started to bucket all of my tasks and I got better at making better decisions for our time, our money, our resources. I got better at saying no.

Carly: That's amazing. And I feel like being better at saying no is a huge part of getting organized in general, with time management and finances.

That was a big thing when we started budgeting as well. So, that's amazing. And can you tell us about the community — because this is something where I'm like, that is so genius and as somebody who, I really, really try to always just like not work on Sunday, but I love this concept because I'm at I basically do the same type of thing.

In full disclosure, it's not like the Sunday Basket System, but I gather my mail, I go through it on the weekend, it'll be Saturday or Sunday. That's when we're going through, I want to just go through all my mail, then do to-do action items. We do our budget, we talk about meal planning, and we do it all on the weekend to prepare for the next week.

So it's like that same concept, but I love that you have a community because there's no way that I would be willing to host a community during this time period. Because it's like my precious time off, but I'm like, oh my God, that's genius. So there is a community, it's here for you. Can you tell us a little bit about it too?

Lisa: Thanks for that too. And no, the Sunday Basket is not rocket science. I mean, many people have a weekly planning system. They do it on Saturday, Friday or Sunday. I did it on Sunday because that tended to be the best day of the week for me. You could do it any day, but you must pick the same day and do it every single week.

That is the rule. So I created the Sunday Basket 20 years ago, and then when I started Organize 365, I did a Sunday Basket, like as an ebook, and then five years ago we created the physical product. So it was around seven years ago when I learned organization was a learnable skill, and I started the podcast and I started teaching how you learn the skill of organizing.

Now, I was a kindergarten teacher, remember? And so I'm like, how do I support people in learning the skill of organizing? And I know as an at-risk intervention kindergarten teacher and reading specialist who specialized in helping people who have ADHD and learning disabilities, who tended to to take longer to learn skills.

So again, it's going to take longer to learn the skill of organizing. Okay, what are all of the things that I put in place to support my students in the physical classroom? I should put those things in. In my company. And so we do have the physical box, and that is hugely helpful because it is a box and it comes with these 25 different colored slash pockets.

And because these slash pockets all have certain meaning, like when you have the right school supplies, it's so much easier to learn the system than if you're cobbling it together yourself. And then we have an online app that has an online community where you could come to a 90 minute co-working time.

Most Sundays, like, we don't do it on holidays, but we do it all the other Sundays. So you literally do it live with professional organizers that are on our staff. And then you can ask questions all week long and the community is so helpful and so encouraging, and no one is judging and they're going to answer any of your questions.

But before I even did that, before we had the app and before we had the physical product, I created the certification program, so there are a hundred certified organizers all over the United States who do small group instruction for the Sunday Basket and doing the binders and organizing all of your paper.

They could do it virtually, they could do it in person. We have weekend-long retreats. I just had one in Cincinnati. People drove from Canada to Cincinnati, from Alabama, from New York. Like, somebody brought their RV full of paper. Wow. We have onsite shredding, so it's like a party. When you want to learn a skill, there are three different kinds of learners, and I learned this very early on.

There are the learners, and this may be you, where you could just listen to this podcast and you're able to implement this solution without anything else. That is maybe 30% of people. Then there are another 30% of people where they're like, okay, I understand what they're talking about. I'll get the physical product.

Okay, that makes sense. I can motivate myself and I can hold myself accountable, and I could do this by myself, but then there's a good 30 to 40% of people who are like, I need a person. Like I need somebody, when I'm holding up my piece of paper, I need somebody to ask and have answering my question about what I do with this piece of paper.

I need somebody to walk through with me and teach me step-by-step how to do this. There is an online portal that teaches you how to do it, but a lot of people, like myself included, I'm like, where's the coach? Can I just hire the coach to help me set it up, and then I'll maintain it and run it afterwards?

All of the Organize 365 products, because we are a school, offer all of the supports that a normal school would have, like you can just get the products and you can implement them all on your own, or you can create your own from scratch after you listen to a podcast. But if you're a person who's like, no, I need some more support, there are all the supports that you need in order to get your home and paper organized here.

Carly: Yeah. I will say that your guys' support system online is expansive in a very amazing way. Even for the book, which I mentioned is the whole thing that first drew me to the Organize 365 world. Even though I'd you, I mean you're in the orbit of organization like, people know who Lisa is. She's a big deal. So I was familiar, but the book is what, like, really fangirled me. But then there's a ton of resources on your website that are supplemental to the book. So you have a special link to go to, to get bonuses. And then for ADHD awareness month, there's resources, like a resource for everyday specific podcast episodes.

Just all sorts of amazing things. And so, if you're looking for an organization that gives you an amazing mount of support, Organize 365 is one to definitely add to your list. And on that note, where can folks find you?

Lisa: So I'm Organize 365 everywhere. I love Instagram. Organize 365 is the name of our website.

It's the name of our podcast. And if you want the page specifically that Carly's talking about, you could just go to organize365.com/adhd and there you could see the monthly download. Virginia was like, Lisa, do you realize that you have 11 different articles at Attitude Magazine? I'm like, yeah.

She's like, do you realize you've done 12 different webinars for all these different ADHD organizations? I'm like, yeah, but no one's ever found them all. She's like, I found them all. I put them all in this spreadsheet. I'm like, okay, great. And then you can also like just download for free the audio version of How ADHD Affects Home Organization on that page too.

So I, what I realize is as a teacher, I love to create content, like that's all we do. And so Organize 365 has been around for 11 years — and I'm a teacher and I just love to teach. And so there are so many resources. There are some things that are paid, but there's a lot that is free. And so, I mean, the book is $12 if you buy it on Amazon, but also you could just get the audio for free.

Carly: Yeah, and I will say I started with the audio version, but I know that I'm going to end up getting the paper version just so I can bookmark the hell out of it. Because it's an amazing resource and I really do, I recommend it to a lot of clients and students. I just emailed it to somebody directly today.

I emailed it somebody directly earlier this week. Like, it comes up very frequently. But it's an amazing book that just helps you understand how your mind works for yourself or somebody else living in your home. I have found it wildly helpful in my own life as well. And thank you Lisa, so much for being here today. Really appreciate it.

Lisa: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me! This has been a great conversation.

Carly: Do you have any final thoughts that you would like to leave with us before we let you go?

Lisa: Yeah, I want everyone to really internalize that you are amazing. Like you're amazing. You are uniquely created to do something special to give the world and all Organize 365 is trying to do is give you more time — and organization is where time comes from. So if you could spend some time learning the skill of organization, it's going to unlock future exponential time. And then we want you to use that time to do what you are uniquely created to do, not to make your house look “Pinterest-perfect”.

Because yes, whatever you are uniquely created to do, the world really, really needs. And I just want to unlock more of people's uniqueness, not create more perfectly organized people.

Carly: Yes. Ugh. I love it. I love it so, so much. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you!

Thank you for tuning in today. If you want to learn more about how I can help you, please head to Tidy Revival dot com to learn more about how I work with people one-on-one or in our Clutter-Free Home Process private community. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe so you'll always have access to the latest episode.

We would love to hear your takeaways! Feel free to tag us at Tidy Revival on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. The Tidy Revival podcast is written and hosted by me, Carly Adams, and edited by Brittany McLean. Title Song Maverick is by Dresden The Flamingo, and until next time, remember that…